Having notched up 30 years in print at businesses including Photobition, Service Graphics and St Ives, in some ways his return to his large-format display roots probably wasn’t that much of surprise to many – with the possible exception of Kelly himself.

Darryl Danielli How did the deal to buy Displayways come about?

Rob Kelly The thought of leaving St Ives came about when the group started on the [marketing services] acquisition trail it’s still on. As result I found myself going into so many different businesses as the marketing director of the group and being part of the team that looked at the integration, cross-selling opportunities and a number of other ways to help the businesses move forward. But it started me thinking about what I wanted to achieve.

How do you mean?

St Ives is a great business and I really enjoyed my time there and going from marketing director of Service Graphics to marketing director of St Ives was a great experience, but I felt that I wanted to do something for myself. It was also a good time to do it, because the business had made the strategic decision to not go down the route of marketing itself as a behemoth and instead let the businesses run themselves, in effect. It was the sensible way to go, bearing in mind the sectors it was entering, but it also meant it was a good time for me to go. So to cut a long story short, I left with around 10 clients on consultancy that wanted marketing support.

Were they all in the print industry?

Print and display, so yes. As part of building up the consultancy I came to see Displayways to see if I could help them and in about the same time it has taken me to explain to you how it came about, they mentioned they were looking to sell the business and that was it – I knew it was the perfect opportunity.

Did you already know the business?

I knew them by reputation from my days at Service Graphics, where we crossed over in certain markets. So I already knew its market position, I knew it was niche and was operating in the top end of the high-quality, bespoke production market. And I also knew that it was run in a way that Service used to be run when it was a smaller business and that all attracted me to it.

But you weren’t looking to buy a business at the time.

Absolutely not; I was focused on the consultancy and building that up. But I think it’s natural to go back to your roots when an opportunity arises. I saw what we could do with the business and that really excited me.

And the thought of running your own business was appealing too, presumably?

Partly. Don’t get me wrong, being in those positions at St Ives, Service and Photobition wasn’t exactly onerous; what I mean is that I was senior enough to do the things I wanted to do. In fact in many ways it was the big PLC side of things that was interesting to do, and challenging, but in the end I just wasn’t sure where I was going to go. So I wanted a fresh challenge.

Leaving a PLC to run your own business must have been a culture shock?

In some respects, but then it was also going back to what I used to do in smaller businesses. Hard work is hard work, it doesn’t matter what form it takes. If you have the right attitude and you want to do well, then you just get on with it and do what needs to be done, regardless of the size or type of business. I think it’s safe to say I won’t miss some of the meetings though [laughs].

Do you think your PLC experience gave you anything that you have brought to Displayways?

Dealing with people. Coming from the shopfloor and working my way up to those sorts of positions and then coming here to do this, that journey makes you realise that you have to earn the respect of everyone in a business regardless of their position. It’s all about the people.

That must have been on your mind when you bought Displayways, because you were the new kid on the block. How did you get the staff to buy into your and Peter’s vision for the business, because it must have been an unsettling time?

A change of ownership is always a little unsettling, but it was just a case of explaining to everyone why we bought the business, what we wanted to do, what we have planned for the future and then allay their fears by explaining that there wouldn’t be any radical changes in the short term. I’ve seen too many businesses being bought and then destabilised by some radical vision imposed on them. Once you’ve done all that then the proof is in your actions, if you say that you’re going to invest and grow the business then you have to back your words with actions and do that. We’re surrounded by the proof now: new machines, more people, more sales and better profits.

And because it wasn’t a distressed purchase, you didn’t have to rush into anything presumably?

Exactly. It was a very well run business, with a great reputation, great people with a high level of interchangeable skills – but because it was being marketed for sale it had been underinvested for a while. That’s not a criticism, anyone would do the same under those circumstances; the owners were looking to exit the business after all. 

You led the MBO with Peter Sheldrick, did you know him already?

No. Peter had been here a long time and I knew Wendy [Richards] who owned it at the time. She had been trying to sell the business for some time and when we spoke she explained what they were trying to do and suggested that I might be able to do something with Peter. It was beneficial to him because I could put additional money in, and here we are two years later.

And what sort of growth have you have achieved?

Last year it was 28%, but we’re doing it in a sensible, controlled fashion. The first year was stabilising the business to enable us to invest and then grow in year two.

Taking on a business is one thing, but taking on a business partner must have made it more complex because you had to be sure that you could work with Peter, and vice versa?

We got past a lot of that by both having strong backgrounds in the industry. I knew so many people who knew Peter, and he knew a lot of people who knew me – so we could find out a lot about each other very quickly.

And you’re 50/50 partners in the business?

Yes. I run the business and he has looked after the clients for many years, so there was the continuity we needed.

So was there a natural division of labour?

Yes. Larger clients and the operational side of the business, Peter knows that inside out, running the business, strategy, marketing and bringing in sales people is me, because I’m used to doing that. I’m used to being responsible for a P&L because of my time at Service.

On that, how did you get into print in the first place?

I started out as a photographer many years ago, doing freelance work and making a sort of living out if it. I then got an opportunity to work in a photographic lab long before digital existed. And that was it, I then went on to run studios and labs, then got into sales and did a CIM marketing degree. Then I ran a photo lab out in Spain for four years. When I returned to the UK I got a sales role at CPL (Colour Processing Laboratories), which was the founder of large-format printing in many respects because it invented the first six-foot wide processor with Agfa, CPL built the processor and Agfa made the paper. I worked my way up to sales and marketing director at CPL, which was the market leader and a competitor of Photobition back in the day. After a few years there were some changes at CPL that I wasn’t happy about, so I wrote to Eddie Marchbanks [Photobition chief executive] and suggested that he needed a marketing director because Photobition was growing so quickly. So I joined Photobition, which in the end [after it collapsed in 2001] became Service Graphics.

The Photobition story is probably a whole other interview. Back to Displayways, does the fact that you’re a niche business focused on the high-end applications limit your growth potential?

If you want to scale this business up to run large retail accounts, for example, that’s a different business model, with a different skill set and investment requirement. That’s a run at full productivity, continue to innovate, but run it on a low margin and accept that you will continue to be pushed on that margin. Whereas our model is, most of the time, that the price is secondary to what the client wants to achieve from a design perspective.

So it’s all about the margin not the price?

It’s all about the pride and service. The biggest sales driver and differentiator for us is innovation. Compli-cated and difficult is our bread and butter, whereas for others it might be running their machine at full utilisation 23 hours a day.

What’s your ambition for the business then?

To grow our market share in the areas we operate. We are into the high-end exhibitions, so the likes of the air and yacht shows, where brands insist on the highest quality, then there’s the high-end interiors market where we would work with architects and visitor experience centres. We think there’s a lot of achievable growth in those sectors and also in new markets.

What sort of new markets?

New technologies, 3D printing for instance, if they’re complementary to what we do, and then also expanding our artworking services.

Do you have some kind of five-year growth plan in place then?

We have internally, but I don’t think I really want to share that with you and the market.

What’s the belt and braces info on the company then?

£2.5m sales and 20 staff. 

But it’s about being the best, not the biggest?

Exactly, but before you ask it doesn’t include an exit strategy.

You’ve read some of these interviews before haven’t you. One of my other stock questions then is who do you admire in the industry?

I have huge respect for Peter Reed, who owned and ran Service Graphics for a good number of years. 

What were the key things you learned from him then, or perhaps from other stages in your career?

The importance of people. You learn how to run a business by, well, running a business. You can learn about managing P&L, you can learn about the importance of cashflow. But it can take a while to recognise that you can’t run a successful business without having good people around you – attracting better people than your rivals so you can provide a better service is key. Anyone can sell on price, selling an all-encompassing solution that is deliverable and exceeds a client’s expectations takes skill.

Is attracting the right people a challenge for an SME?

Mark Hurley, our operations director, joined from McKenzie Clark. Sean Rees, our major projects director, joined from GES London. They’ve both come from bigger businesses.

How did you attract them to what is obviously a much smaller business though? Salary? Equity..?

By them buying into our vision, recognising that we’re a good business that is growing and treats its people well, and that we value our people enjoying their job and also be respected. All the things that any of us want in our careers really.

Do you have to make the same sort of decision with people that you do with kit, in that if you want the best people then you have to be prepared to pay?

I suppose so, but we probably expect more as a smaller business because we can’t afford to hold people’s hands – they need to know what they’re doing and, left to their own devices, be credible with clients – we have to know we can trust them with our brand and our client’s brand. So we have to recognise the level of responsibility we give our people, but then they also need to recognise the level of opportunity they have at a smaller business.

Also in the markets you operate in you’re only as good as your last job?

Or you’re only as good as the problem you sorted. By the nature of our work we’re often pushing the boundaries of what’s possible. We have jobs for which we have to be honest and tell the designers that we’re not sure if something will work – but that we will try our best.

And is your team now where it needs to be for your next stage of growth?

Where we are at now is that we’ve taken two years to get to the right level. The investment is right, the scalability is right and now it’s about attracting the people we need to further develop. Production is working well, operations is working well and we’re now looking at getting more people into the business to develop or project manage.

It sounds like you’re building a senior management team, is that part of the growth plan?

It is and we are, because if you want to scale a business then it has to be able to be run by its departments and not just by Peter and me. 

That’s interesting, because talking to people with similar growth aspirations a key challenge can be getting the right management team in place to prevent the business being over-reliant on the principals.

That’s true; you need to get the right management structures in place to enable growth – otherwise the management team is stretched too thin and something has to give.

Was your experience of working in larger businesses key to recognising that early at Displayways though?

Definitely, having the right structure is key to scalability. But regardless of how big your company becomes, you still need to stay connected to what the business is doing. If you look at the most successful leaders of large print businesses, Pat Martell being an obvious example, they still know what’s going on at the grass roots level and the day-to-day issues because that’s where they came from. Peter [Reed] was the same. 

And presumably you are much more hands-on now anyway, running an SME?

Absolutely, and that was deliberate from day one. My shopfloor experience was from a different era and I wanted to get back to being customer facing, managing projects and developing the business.

Have you had to spend time relearning the basics then?

I’ve certainly had to catch up with machine technology, having spent five years away from that side of things. That was also imperative when we went through our recent round of investments; we did it properly by implementing the learnings from working at a larger business, by doing an RFI.

An RFI?

A ‘request for information’. Basically put together a request on what you want the machines to do for you, what your criteria are, get the reports back from the manufacturers and then go through the full testing process. People like Agfa said to us that they had never seen a small company go through that process and it proved its worth by completely changing the machines we bought. We didn’t end up buying the machines we thought we would at the start of the process.

Does that make it a longer process though?

Perhaps, but it makes it more considered – it took about three or four months. But it was worth it because we ended up with the machines that were right for our business and not just the ones that we had the best gut feel about. We had all the standard questions on size of the flatbed, what thickness of substrates it could print on, what the speeds were at the quality settings we required, what the colour gamut was... But we also checked a whole series of other things, from whether it could run extra channels, all the way through to whether or not you could stand on the deck if you had a big panel you needed to lift onto it. It was an exhaustive list.

Any other things you’ve implemented from your time in big print businesses?

Bringing good procedures to the business, setting sales targets, having regular staff reviews, all the basic things really – it’s just good practice though, I’m sure we’re not unique in taking a systematic approach to running an SME.

And it makes sense, because in a big team if one member of staff is underperforming than that can be covered by other people. But in a small business there’s nowhere to hide.

Well, there were some individuals that left the business in the early days because they weren’t up to scratch. And perhaps coming from a larger company where you make those sorts of decisions based on the business needs rather than on a personal level made that easier for me to deal with. Whereas a similar smaller business owner might continue with those staff members because they don’t want the confrontation. 

Or perhaps because they balance the impact on the morale of a smaller team?

Perhaps. But it’s not that I enjoy those conversations, but if you take the time to be honest and straightforward with people they respect you for that and understand that you’re making a tough decision for the benefit of the business. Then when the business moves forward as a result, they can see that. It’s all about being open and honest about what your vision and strategy is, even if it’s not always going to be that important to them – some people just prefer to come to work, do their job to the best of their ability and then go home and enjoy their life. 

But even then, everyone wants job security.

Exactly, even though their motivation might be different from the business owners’, more often than not we all want the same things.

Was that daunting for you? I mean if you work at a big business and it goes wrong you might lose your job, but you can get another one. But this is your business, if it goes wrong you lose more than just a job.

I’ve still got to pay the mortgage and feed my family. Whether it’s your business or you work for someone else, you have to make it work otherwise you’re out of job – it’s the same principle.

What’s been your proudest achievement at Displayways?

Well, I’m still a marketer at heart, so the rebrand was certainly one. Also some of the larger project-based contracts that we’re winning are definite highlights. Especially when we know that we’re winning them because they’re being pushed by the decision-making teams that are either high up in the institutions that are paying for the project or the architects or the design studios responsible for the project. So when we hear that those committees that do the due diligence recommend us as the preferred supplier, a decision often not based on price, then we know that we’re doing the right thing.

Is there more positivity in the sector generally too?

The large-format industry is often first into a recession and last out; it’s always at the end of the marketing spend because it’s often based around events or conferences, or perhaps an office refurb. But the market has definitely turned a corner and a lot of people are saying the same. Two things have happened: the ever-expanding capability of digital large-format is one and the ever-increasing range of possible applications is the other. They have taken us into new markets like the dressing of interiors, which didn’t exist 10 years ago and is now a blossoming market.

Do you think your marketing experience has been useful in talking to some clients, because you speak the same language?

Probably. Perhaps if I’d only had general sales experience I would be more interested in just securing a sale, rather than considering what the client’s requirements really are and what’s pushing their buttons. So yes, I first want to find out what the client is trying to achieve and what their restrictions are before I even start to talk about what we can do. 

Perhaps because if you can’t rise to the challenge no one can?

I like to think so. For example, we recently had a job, probably the most expensive banners ever produced, that was printed on to leather, leatherette, hessian, canvas, silk, double-sided and with driftwood for dowelling, if you can believe it. And we didn’t know if we could do any of it. None of the materials had been printed on before. I had to find a driftwood supplier who imports from New Zealand and a specialist stitcher, as they wanted a number of different stitching styles – it’s safe to say it was an artisan project rather than a print project.

And is being known as the artisan display specialist something you strive for?

Well, I can think of worse things.